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8 aspirations -{}- aspire with me
alphapythia From: alphapythia Date: September 12th, 2004 09:58 am (UTC) (Link)
"Anyone who endorses a global government system must not be getting the same news I'm getting from all those other countries. The barbarians are at every gate people!"

I'm sure that's exactally how "they" feel about "us."






Evil Americans.



All of them people, just, people.
aspiring2live From: aspiring2live Date: September 15th, 2004 06:30 pm (UTC) (Link)
First off, I don't want you to think I'm angry with you, I'm not. I disagree with you somewhat on this topic. While your whole point may have been to draw attention to my use of "labels," my view is that labels are necessary and often helpful in our everyday interactions. My use of the label "barbarian" was specific and intentional.

Other than "them" and "us" I see no labels above that I apply to Americans. Americans don't engage in public beheadings or cutting off of hands (as numerous Arab nations), killing prisoners for their organs and forcing abortions for "unlicensed" children (as the Chinese do), or starving their populace while feeding the military (as the North Koreans are fond of doing).

For you to equate Americans with obvious barbarians all over the world merely demonstrates our differing views of just what this country is, and was intended to be.

We are all just people, as you said, but we are not all barbarians. I am proud of my country, of being an American. I believe we are, flaws acknowledged, still the greatest nation on earth. Personally, what barbarians think of me and my country doesn't concern me much.
alphapythia From: alphapythia Date: September 15th, 2004 10:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
Don't we? Was I the only one who saw the pictures from Abu Graves?

Some people are terrible. Some are wonderful. Most are ok. I haven't found that nationality plays much into it, and I've traveled quite a lot.

I'm not angry with you either; but how many times have you been to China, or any other place you consider full of "barbarians."

I find it amazing we call ourselves the greatest nation on earth, when so few of us really go out and see the worldand meet it's people.

The United States is a great nation. One which, until recently, I was proud to call my home and one on which I still rest my best hopes for a decent future for my family- but we are not the the worldand the world is full of many beautiful, free, and amazing nations.
alphapythia From: alphapythia Date: September 16th, 2004 09:59 am (UTC) (Link)
I thought some more on this over night;

I don't want to be mistaken for defending the indefensible. Kim Jong Il (sp?) is a mad man, and his people suffer for it. We feel sorry for them because he is a madman, and they are innocent people, like most folks. China's human right policies are abismal (though we have a higher per capita prison rate than they do- ph33r.) Of course I am annual horrified as we grant them "mpst favored nation" status year after year, condoning the very behaviors we both find so abohrant, so we have our part to play there as well.

The point is, North Koreans don't love starving to death- their leader is a mad man. The Chninese don't want their human rights taken away- they are oppressed. And though "many Arab nations" may partake in cruel rituals in the name of justice, we hold onto the death penalty, sometimes blindly, and many Americans would call for a return to "old testament justice" that would very much resemble that which we condem in others.

Soemtimes leaders go mad. I hope that people will understand that just because I am American does not mean I condone the outrageous things Bush has done (or that Secret Service agents did at Abu Graves) and in the same light, I strive to remember that a nation's leaders often are not representative of thier people.
8 aspirations -{}- aspire with me